Reminder that socialist countries like Cuba or the USSR have historically de jure and de facto guaranteed employment, with worse economic conditions and over a half century ago. Unemployment is a capitalist construct and we can do better than that.
i think we need to get rid of the mentality that work is a moral obligation.
what’s the point in having exponential productivity increase if we are all still expected to work full time or starve.
we could probably just set up a 20 hour week maximum and the economy would still run. just with less profits for the 1%, but they can go fuck themselves with syphilitic cacti.
Just “Marxist” suffices. Judging by your hatred of socialists, that’s probably a slur for you already.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and explain myself to you:
Labor, according to Marx’s Labor Theory of Value, is the source of value in society and economy. Without labor, there simply is no value.
I envision a society that behaves according to the moral principle that can be summarized as “everyone contributes according to their capabilities, and everyone receives according to their needs”.
Who are those who obtain compensation without work? Landlords, capitalist owners, financial institutions: rentiers and exploiters, in short. I don’t want those in my society.
tried to make the last comment half a joke. I’m a Marxist too, work with my local DSA and mutual aids (not as socialists as I would want, but the closest thing).
I just disagree with the concept that work is a moral thing. people should work according to their habilites. but if it isn’t necessary, there shouldn’t be bullshit jobs just for people to be busy and “earn” a living.
Even comparing with medieval serfs we work more than them and barely affording rent. despite productivity being orders of magnitude greater.
fuck landlords, they definitely do not “earn” a living, they suck it from others who do like the parasites that they are.
I think we’re both getting too defensive.
It’s ok to disagree in the small details, if you want to continue, we can focus on that.
for me, feel free to use he/him and any slur you prefer (i think I’ve earned a couple here)
Seeing as you’re a Marxist and DSA member: mate, why the need for the left-punching “tankie bootlicker” stuff? Actually existing socialism has brought liberation to hundreds of millions of people, had there been no USSR what would have happened to Cuba or Vietnam?
Now, about work. I agree there shouldn’t be bullshit jobs. Labour, as the only source of value, is a precious commodity, and shouldn’t be wasted on bullshit just because “working dignifies” or some right wing shit like that. That said, I also thing that there will always be labor to do, and since someone has to do it, it would be fair to more or less share it equally and according to our capabilities. We should also work fewer hours than we currently do.
As a final nitpick: when people say that medieval serfs worked less than we do, I suspect only field labor is counted. Peasants mostly lived in self-sustaining communities where the clothes, the housing, the iron utensils, the ceramics, the basketry etc. were manufactured to a great degree by serfs themselves. Serfs may have had fewer “working days” than us as in fewer days spent in the field vs. the office, but I suspect that the rest of the time they were mostly also working doing basketry, woodworking, fixing clothes and cleaning them, building homes, or other labors that were for self consumption or for local trade.
Reminder that socialist countries like Cuba or the USSR have historically de jure and de facto guaranteed employment, with worse economic conditions and over a half century ago. Unemployment is a capitalist construct and we can do better than that.
i think we need to get rid of the mentality that work is a moral obligation.
what’s the point in having exponential productivity increase if we are all still expected to work full time or starve.
we could probably just set up a 20 hour week maximum and the economy would still run. just with less profits for the 1%, but they can go fuck themselves with syphilitic cacti.
That’s up for debate, but my point was about work being a guaranteed universal right, not about it being forced at gunpoint.
It’s only up to debate if someone’s is a capitalist bootlicker.
I’m a communist, so no, the only way to debate this isn’t by being a capitalist bootlicker.
ok.
tankie bootlicker? if I’m off, please provide me a slur to use for you…
actually, besides pronouns, it would be polite to ask people for their slurs.
Just “Marxist” suffices. Judging by your hatred of socialists, that’s probably a slur for you already.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and explain myself to you:
Labor, according to Marx’s Labor Theory of Value, is the source of value in society and economy. Without labor, there simply is no value.
I envision a society that behaves according to the moral principle that can be summarized as “everyone contributes according to their capabilities, and everyone receives according to their needs”.
Who are those who obtain compensation without work? Landlords, capitalist owners, financial institutions: rentiers and exploiters, in short. I don’t want those in my society.
can we please chill.
tried to make the last comment half a joke. I’m a Marxist too, work with my local DSA and mutual aids (not as socialists as I would want, but the closest thing).
I just disagree with the concept that work is a moral thing. people should work according to their habilites. but if it isn’t necessary, there shouldn’t be bullshit jobs just for people to be busy and “earn” a living.
Even comparing with medieval serfs we work more than them and barely affording rent. despite productivity being orders of magnitude greater.
fuck landlords, they definitely do not “earn” a living, they suck it from others who do like the parasites that they are.
I think we’re both getting too defensive.
It’s ok to disagree in the small details, if you want to continue, we can focus on that.
for me, feel free to use he/him and any slur you prefer (i think I’ve earned a couple here)
Sure, let’s chill, sorry for my part on that.
Seeing as you’re a Marxist and DSA member: mate, why the need for the left-punching “tankie bootlicker” stuff? Actually existing socialism has brought liberation to hundreds of millions of people, had there been no USSR what would have happened to Cuba or Vietnam?
Now, about work. I agree there shouldn’t be bullshit jobs. Labour, as the only source of value, is a precious commodity, and shouldn’t be wasted on bullshit just because “working dignifies” or some right wing shit like that. That said, I also thing that there will always be labor to do, and since someone has to do it, it would be fair to more or less share it equally and according to our capabilities. We should also work fewer hours than we currently do.
As a final nitpick: when people say that medieval serfs worked less than we do, I suspect only field labor is counted. Peasants mostly lived in self-sustaining communities where the clothes, the housing, the iron utensils, the ceramics, the basketry etc. were manufactured to a great degree by serfs themselves. Serfs may have had fewer “working days” than us as in fewer days spent in the field vs. the office, but I suspect that the rest of the time they were mostly also working doing basketry, woodworking, fixing clothes and cleaning them, building homes, or other labors that were for self consumption or for local trade.