As Torvalds pointed out in 2019, is that while some major hardware vendors do sell Linux PCs – Dell, for example, with Ubuntu – none of them make it easy. There are also great specialist Linux PC vendors, such as System76, Germany’s TUXEDO Computers, and the UK-based Star Labs, but they tend to market to people who are already into Linux, not disgruntled Windows users. No, one big reason why Linux hasn’t taken off is that there are no major PC OEMs strongly backing it. To Torvalds, Chromebooks “are the path toward the desktop.”
LESS CHOICE!
Choice is only exciting for us techheads. Too much of it actively harms adoption.
Personally, I’d take choice over adoption.
I think we should have two options that are basically the same, then incite endless hoopla over which is better. Similar to coke vs pepsi.
arch v debian?
- Game studios support - most games don’t support Linux natively (and no, I don’t want compatibility layer upon layer).
- “Default” Linux distribution for average consumers. Average consumers don’t want 2000 distro choices as they will rather stick to one Windows that having to think between many Linux distros and pick one.
- The “default” Linux needs to have the consumer-marketing name of simply “Linux OS”.
compatibility layer upon layer
I can understand the sentiment, but don’t ignore the real advantages to the proton/wine way of doing things.
For instance, some old games won’t run on modern Windows but will run on Linux under proton/wine.
It’s also just a lot easier for game companies to target a single platform i.e. Windows. When Valve first released their Steam machines, a few AA games were released natively. For several of those, the native builds no longer work and you now need to run the Windows version under proton/wine.
It’s not the use case I am referring to - I am speaking about modern day games. As long as Linux is ignored by the gaming companies making AAA titles, it will never be a real option for the entire gaming community. An average gamer doesn’t know nor want to spend time setting up everything and hoping nothing breaks when the OS/layer/game gets the next update. It should be “Install” and then play without ever really thinking about any underlying tech.
@Fedditor385 @MouldyCat its like that for the majority of games on #steamos
Who would make this “default” Linux? Who would be in charge of it? What power would they have over directing development of the kernel? What happens when this centralization that’s so important to soothing the confusion of people who aren’t even using the OS yet inevitably causes it to enshitify and brings us right back to the Windows problem?
No, I’m sorry - there may be some things that would make Linux more palatable to non-techies, but this just recreates the Windows problem again. The same dichotomy that’s been at play for the past 30 years is still at play - you can have it easy or you can have freedom and control, but you can’t have both.
Preface: I am a Linux user
The Linux desktop needs to not require users to dig through config files to enable features that both windows and Mac have working by default. Fingerprint sensors, audio interfaces, broken bootloaders that you have to fix yourself. Requiring people to ever use a command line even once will keep people on Windows as the dominant platform.
Every time I have to look at a Linux forum to figure out why something isn’t working and the answers are run these commands I am instantly reminded that this is the exact thing keeping Windows mainstream.
Driver support still isn’t perfect. Software support as well. Linux needs to ship out of the box running exe files in compatibility layers. Linux needs to adopt executable installers for software packages that can be downloaded on the web. If Linux wants to be the way people use computers, Linux needs to fit the mould that windows has built for the people who have used it for the last 40 years.
Doing anything differently is enough of a deterrent for 90% of computer users. And of those 90%, 75% of them will give up immediately trying to fix anything that doesn’t work and either call someone else or decide it’s broken and do nothing.
Linux is incredibly powerful and I believe it should be the way we run computers, but I get exactly why it isn’t.
I agree, but only until the part you mention how people should install their software. And that’s simply because I don’t think that people should install random .exes or .debs from the internet, because repositories are:
- Easier to find software within: you’ve got a one-stop-shop for all/most of your most important software
- They’re inherently more secure as the software should (emphasis on should) be checked by maintainers or the people who upload software onto them
- Software updates are much easier to enroll, as they are treated as system updates
Yeah I’d say a large percentage of users don’t even know what a repository is, have no idea what a maintainer does, and wouldn’t even refer to their ‘apps’ as software.
You’re asking a lot of of people who don’t give a fuck.
Yeah, but a lot of people nowadays only use a phone, and they don’t download their software from a random website, but they use a front end (e.g. Play Store/App Store), so they don’t need to get accustomed to it
What even is the benefit of getting the users who don’t even give a fuck about any of the things that are useful to learn (and have for those who did learn enough to use them)?
There’s another thing that frustrates me about Linux and its various philosophies. Should I be allowed to do what I want with my software? Or should the machine protect me from myself? It seems at conflict with itself to allow you to do stuff like delete system files without much more than a warning while also having protections in place as you describe. Windows tried doing this exact thing with S Mode and people get pissed about windows not allowing them to do whatever they want.
I fundamentally disagree that users should not be allowed to install whatever they want from wherever they want.
I fundamentally disagree that users should not be allowed to install whatever they want from wherever they want.
You can install whatever dodgy file from wherever you want. I (and many others) don’t think that should be the default
Okay so step one is to take GNOME and throw it into the trash where it belongs, and replace it with KDE which is a complete DE and not a bunch of plugins disguised in a trench coat of bash scripts.
Step two is to recommend a distro that targets both user quality and latest stable kernel releases for the most updated modules (Like Fedora or OpenSUSE)
Linux needs to adopt executable installers for software packages that can be downloaded on the web
Is the wrong problem because that’s what Flatpak accomplishes without creating distro dependency hell. Regressing to .run and .appimage files for everything is why windows updates suck total ass, and it would nuke one of Linux’s most killer features.
Users are already used to an appstore on mobile, I can personally guarantee you that they have no trouble getting accustomed to a desktop app installer, especially since they find it so much easier to search and click install without opening a bunch of websites. Since it shows both package manager and flatpak apps, they don’t even have to be aware of the backend system.
–
The only thing holding back linux at this current point in time is honestly just vendors using it standard in consumer hardware. The dependency hell issue was resolved years ago by both huge improvements in package repos and the widespread support of Flatpak. The leftover baggage from X11 has been replaced by Wayland, which finally became viable around end of 2023. Even stuff like pulseaudio has been replaced by pipewire to handle every edge cases scenario.
I would not have said the same thing 2 years ago. The evidence is that the linux desktop user base is growing at an increasing rate. All they need is to hit a critical share (6-7%) for bigger vendors and OEMs to follow.
The good news is, as mentioned, there are a lot of vendors that are starting to do this. Valve’s steam machine by itself could be enough to add another 10 million users if they play their cards right.
My other anecdotal evidence is that I successfully changed several of my friends and family members over to Fedora just last year because I finally found it viable to throw at any former Windows user.
The only dissatisfaction I caused was one “dependent” person who couldn’t play Fortnite (the only game in their library that didn’t work), which I audaciously told it would be possible in 2026 via waydroid/lepton (valve plz dont fail me lol).
Basically this, it’s why it has worked from that gaming side since just installing steam and running a game is now a painless process thanks to proton.
You are completely right.
I do also get why the run these commands is a thing, because it’s usually faster and also is distro / desktop environment agnostic.
Why would someone want to write separate guides for Gnome, KDE, Cinnamon etc. when one or two commands will suffice? But on the flip side, my family and friends will see a scary looking command and immediately be put off.
I feel it’s getting a lot better since more apps are just in the browser or electron apps, there’s way way less to actually configure for most end users. The type of people put off by commands generally won’t go digging through the settings anyway.
I do wish there were a proper GUI for configuring GRUB though. Any that I’ve ever found seemed to fall out of date very quickly.
“But on the flip side, my family and friends will see a scary looking command and immediately be put off.”
More to that… these are exactly the people we have all been telling “If you see someone on the internet telling you ‘type this!’ DON’T DO IT!”
ALT-F4 being the benign one.
rm -rf / --no-preserve-root - not so benign.
I remember a story of someone getting the recursive tag wrong on the chmod command and managed to chmod 000 themselves out of everything on the system… including chmod.
and the answers are run these commands
This one always gets me. There’s rarely an explanation of what the commands do, and “man $command” is often so obtuse that it takes 10 minutes to figure out what the list of switches and options are doing to make sure it’s not going to download some malware in the background.
Then, you run the commands, and the output is six pages of warnings, debug, and test scripts. You might even notice that some of the tests fail (if you can even follow along), but was it important? Who knows? I guess as long as it works, who cares?
We already have windows for that. I know I don’t want linux to be another windows. And if it means people won’t use it, so be it.
I stopped using windows thirty fucking years ago, it’s not going to be forced upon me because some wankers can’t rtfm and think all operating systems are the same. I think those people should just use a tablet.
Yeah, plus there’s other downsides to popularity, like it being worthwhile for advertisers and scammers to target. As much as I’d like to see MS fail, there are big advantages to having them run the noob friendly OS, similar to how reddit still existing benefits Lemmy.
Last thing I want to see is Linux selling its soul to appeal to the lowest common denominator because it just gets worse from there.
I feel much of this, especially the installer situation right now.
I’ve setup and maintained a number of Linux servers from scratch, and I’m used to installing / updating / maintaining server software (via bash / SSH), but desktop kills me.
I didn’t think my Windows setup would be that crazy to get working, but VMWare Workstation, and Splashtop have both been killers (and good triple monitor support to some degree). Steam has been 50/50 for games for me, but I’m running an older NVidia card, so that’s probably my issue.
I started with Open Suse, and liked the OS quite well, but could never get past the errors installing and configuring VMWare (I develop in Windows inside a couple of VMWare images, and will for the next decade at least), so fast / stable VMWare support is key to moving off of Windows.
I also couldn’t get Splashtop running: I need remote access to my machine when outside of the house, and to client machines quite often, so need two different apps installed. There’s also no LogMeIn desktop app for Linux, so that becomes very painful (one of our dealers uses LMI instead of Splashtop).
After a week of that, I paved the disk and loaded Kubuntu, figuring that the better support for those packages would help. I did manage to get VMWare and Splashtop Business installed but everything feels unstable, and there have been lots of issues (third monitor is often black, had to disable 3d acceleration in VMWare, Solarr never seems to see my mouse, can’t browse shared NTFS drives), and have to re-sign VMWare modules every time the OS updates.
I’ve been using Windows for decades, largely without any issue, and would like to move, but it’s been problematic enough for me to put the entire thing on pause, knowing that I’m going to have to start all over again and burn several more days trying to get a base setup working.
To Torvalds, Chromebooks “are the path toward the desktop.”
Please don’t associate Linux with a close-source proprietary neutered web browser owned by an ad company.
Exactly. I wouldn’t touch a chromebook with a barge pole. Who wants Google to watch absolutely everything you do?
You won’t, but the average Joe will.
In which case average Joe needs people like us to push back against coercive bullshit so that it doesn’t become entrenched.
Average Joe lives in ignorance and doesnt know enough to care.
and theres also a good chance they don’t care enough to know… until shit hits the fan of course.
I’m lost for what point you’re trying to make, in relation to this topic and article.
The average Joe doesn’t care.
He’s right. If vendors offered Linux based machines people would try. Valve is helping Linux adoption more than all the big names like Dell, Lenovo, HP… combined.
Are you talking about a Chromebook?
Aside from that… I remember when I had my very first help desk job in 2008, Dell was shipping Latitude laptops with Linux for $90 less than the laptops that shipped with Windows… which is what a lot of places did that already paid for their own licensing direct from MS.
I’m aware of Dell officially supporting Ubuntu on their business machines, I appreciate that. What I meant is the market impact. Dell sells those development oriented workstations for those who actively seek them.
Go to any consumer store, online or meatspace, anything that is not a Macbook or Chromebook comes with windows.
(Of course it’s a chicken and egg problem, stores don’t want to stock things that won’t be in high demand)
Removed by mod
For years and years the barrier to entry was mom or gramma buying a clipart CD for $4.99 at the grocery store, bringing it home, and expecting it to work.
Now that’s not a thing anymore, but they still aren’t using it. So I guess the barrier to entry now is they see that ad for the casino app that “pays you real money” and they expect to download it and expect it to work.
Until mom and grandmom can load up the computer with all sorts of malware that breaks everything, they really aren’t interested.
Like mentioned in the article, another issue is that there are very few offerings of computers with Linux preinstalled in normal computer stores.
You know how a normal average persons buys new laptops? They go to such store and look at the prices and buy one according to how much they want to spend. The advanced buyers might consult their more tech-savvy acquaintances. Stuff like “Just install Linux”, is beyond concept comprehension for a lot of people, even if they heard about Linux at all.
All to say is that it’s not like they can’t understand these concepts if you explain them (people are clever), but they should care about them in the first place.
Edit: typo
Agreed. We are in an age where tech is spoonfed to people with slick UIs and automated installs. Linux needs that–some kind of easy onramp to get people comfortable and familiar with it–in order to have a chance of getting broad acceptance. It’s not particularly accessible even for people with a small amount of tech knowledge and skill.
I tried to set up mint on an old laptop recently and immediately hit a roadblock before I could even get an install going. I did some research and found some options to troubleshoot it but gave up because the guidance I found online was a bit more complex than I felt comfortable acting on.
I really want to try out Linux, but if someone like me (with some technology knowledge and comfort) still gets this easily tripped up on installing it, I can’t imagine the average person taking the leap successfully.
Lemme guess, Secure Boot prevented installation?
I think it was something like that, though its been about 6 weeks so Im a little fuzzy on it now. I was following a guide I’d found online and reached something different from what the guide said, so I aborted install to check on somethings and that apparently set something that when i tried to restart installation it kept throwing an error. Something about starting the installation without completing it messed something else up that I havent been able to fix. I spent an hour or so looking through stuff, even wiped the PC and it still wouldn’t work. I’ve been meaning to go back to it but haven’t gotten around to it.
Yeah secure boot really fucked with me for like an hour. Then bitlocker stalled me for days. Windows marks it’s territory with asparagus piss and vinegar. Disable fastboot and secure boot, remove bitlocker.
Ironically, the laptops that do come with Linux are always the shittiest stuff like that Lenovo distro.
Linux don’t need anything to challenge Windows. Windows is doing great on their own.
For gaming and home use I think Windows will slowly die off. But I see precious few enterprise customers who are willing to consider Linux desktops for anyone other than sysadmins or programmers. Some will allow Macs for general users but I’ve never seen one that allows Linux.
Hard to enforce a GPO on Linux, unless it’s locked down like ChromeOS.
That’s really the limiting factor: liability and support costs.
I think you can:
- set up something like Fedora Silverblue,
- disallow root,
- disallow sysrq and such,
- allow sudo only for select few things,
- refresh configuration centrally.
I’m not sure it’s much more work than what I’ve seen in corporate environments with Windows.
I’ve managed Linux desktop fleets in enterprise-like environments. I’ll modify your list a bit:
- Use Rocky or RHEL (because the commercial software you want to use only has support for RHEL and/or Ubuntu)
- disallow root completely without exception
- do additional hardening
- don’t allow sudo for fucking anything
- run centrally controlled configuration management (most likely Puppet)
- Ironically - disallow any use of Flatpak, Snap and AppImage. They don’t play that well with Kerberized NFS-mounted home directories, which you absofuckinglutely will be required to use. (Might have improved since I tried last time, but probably not. Kerberos and network mounted directories,home or otherwise, are usually a hard requirement.)
- Install and manage all software via configuration management (again, somewhat ironically, this works very well with RPMs and DEBs, but not with Flatpak/Snap/Appimage). Update religiously, but controlled (i.e. Snap is out).
- A full reprovision of everything fairly regularly.
- You most likely want TPM-based unlocking of your LUKS encrypted drives, with SecureBoot turned on. This is very fun to get working properly in a Linux environment, but super simple to do on Windows.
And as you have guessed, on Windows this requires a bit of point and click in SCCM to do decently.
On Linux, you’ll wanna start by getting a few really good sysadmins to write a bunch of Puppet for a year or so.
(If we include remote desktop capabilities in the discussion, I’ll do my yearly Wayland-rant.)
The other thing you’ll need is for compliance and risk management frameworks (e.g. CMMC, ISO27001, CIS, etc.) to fully embrace Linux controls and environments. As of right now, it’s a patchwork full of holes and if you need to demonstrate compliance, it’s likely to be a lot more challenging running Linux workstations.
- OK. I agree, but personally hate RHEL.
- Yes.
- Suppose so.
- Brightness and sound controls too?..
- Yep, meant that.
- I thought of something like company-issued laptops, which might be good to have functional without Internet connectivity sometimes, if it’s remote work.
- Dependent on the role some users might need to regularly install software you haven’t thought about.
- Yes.
- Well, disagree about SecureBoot, there’s nothing secure about MS signing your binaries. It’s just proof they are signed by MS. Setting TPM under Linux is, eh, something I’ve never done.
You need to have secure boot in order to have the disk decrypt without user input, otherwise the chain is untrusted. You can (and probably should) load your own keys into the firmware and sign everything yourself. MS has nothing to do with it, except that BitLocker is much better than anything any Linux distro has to offer today.
You need to have the disk decrypt without user input, and you can’t have the secret with the user. (As the user is untrusted - could be someone stealing the laptop.) The normal Linux user mantra of ”I own the machine” does not apply here. In this threat model, the corporation owns the machine, and in particular any information on it.
As for sudo, this is why we have polkit. (Yes, technically root, but you get my point)
And as for number 7 - this is why most Windows fleets use ”Software Center” or similar. No reason you can’t do the same on Linux, just that no one has done it yet. (I mean, you can, with pull requests into a puppet repo, but that’s not very user friendly)
Hate RHEL all you want, but first take a look at what distros have any kind of commercial support at all from software vendors. This is the complete list: RHEL, sometimes Rocky, sometimes Ubuntu. Go ask your vendor about Fedora Silverblue and see what happens. The primary reason to run Linux like this is usually to use a specific (and probably very expensive) software that works best on Linux, so distro choice is usually very limited to what that software vendor supports. (And when they say Linux, they are really saying ”the oldest still supported RHEL.)
Basically, corporate requirements go completely against the requirements of enthusiasts and power users. You don’t need Secure Boot to protect your machine from thieves, but a corporation needs Secure Boot to protect the machine from you.
MS has nothing to do with it, except that BitLocker is much better than anything any Linux distro has to offer today.
It’s a piece of software with closed source code. I am aware that people can hide (and have done so many times) a backdoor or a mistake in source code so that it’ll be harder to find than many problems in binaries without source provided.
Still harder to audit.
You need to have the disk decrypt without user input, and you can’t have the secret with the user. (As the user is untrusted - could be someone stealing the laptop.) The normal Linux user mantra of ”I own the machine” does not apply here. In this threat model, the corporation owns the machine, and in particular any information on it.
Smart cards?
Hate RHEL all you want, but first take a look at what distros have any kind of commercial support at all from software vendors. This is the complete list: RHEL, sometimes Rocky, sometimes Ubuntu.
I know.
Basically, corporate requirements go completely against the requirements of enthusiasts and power users. You don’t need Secure Boot to protect your machine from thieves, but a corporation needs Secure Boot to protect the machine from you.
Sigh. Okay.
Well, disagree about SecureBoot, there’s nothing secure about MS signing your binaries. It’s just proof they are signed by MS. Setting TPM under Linux is, eh, something I’ve never done.
that’s the difficult part of SecureBoot: you need to set up MOK and somehow sign the bootloader, kernel, modules with it.
but against small scale intrusions even the MS signed things could work
Enterprise is where windows has deep claws embedded.
I’d try and get my work to switch, but apparently Zebra thermal printers (of which we have so many) don’t work well with CUPS, you may be able to do some weird shit to make them work but iirc it wasn’t too viable for a large scale operation.
I’d wager a lot of companies do use things that just don’t work too well on linux yet, not that they couldn’t work it’s just that none of the people smarter than me who make linux happen have worked on it yet, and until they do it’s just what it is. Before we want to capture the enterprise market we need good easy to use thermal printing software, CNC software, laser etching software, stuff like that. It can be done too for at least most things I’m sure.
I came here to say that too
Choice is both one of Linux’s greatest strengths and weaknesses. There are so many distros that offer something great an unique, but that also leads to choice paralysis as well as fragmentation. I think Bazzite has been great for the Linux gaming space because it does offer a single user experience that reduces the knowledge barrier for those just getting into Linux.
“Everyone wants to save the world, but no one can agree on how…”
The linux problem in a nutshell
Yep, choice is nice, but everyone and their uncle rolling out distros is excessive as all fuck. Especially when there is precious little that isnt ultimately, deep down, just another flavor of Debian, Arch or Fedora.
So? There are lots of restraint and cars and people manage to just pick one
They also usually stay true to their car brand.
So the choice has been narrowed down to their house brand and the current/last year model.
So much choices… /s
This is one of the coolest things about Universal Blue OSs like Bazzite. You can very easily roll your own custom OS based off of one of their images. And it’s all automated.
I feel like that’s the best of both worlds. Extreme customizability and standardization.
Thats not actually a problem. Every other OS has that problem.
Mac will never get 100% market share because there will always be people that hate their workflow. Linux can offer a tailored version to everyone’s liking.
As long as they don’t need nividia drivers.
There are versions that ship with the proprietary nvidia driver. The reason people have issues is the distros shipping the open version due to philosophy or distros shipping the open version for compatibility reasons. The open version is worse but at least it works the proprietary version doesnt support a lot of cards.
As long as they don’t need nividia drivers.
Luckily NVidia is rather selling their GPUs to AI datacenters than to home consumers.
I think there is a strategy in what you are pointing out.
For the general public, its not that we should advocate for the use of software, but for the use of a package of hardware+software.
People dont say they want iOS or MacOS or even Windows. They say they want an iPad, Macbook or ASUS Strix Laptop. The software is not a primary consideration for them.
The Steam Deck is the prime example. Its about making the package attractive.
If we can do things like have Bazzite make a deal with Steam for “Steam Machine” accreditation, that can be packaged and marketed to be sold by the hardware vendors. Probably starting with the gaming system integrators.
We need a similar brand and package for general purpose users, but I dont know what the set of hooks would be to make it marketable. Maybe its right to repair, maybe 10 years of software support. Maybe a 10 year warranty. Something the community still needs to figure out. Linux Mint is probably one of the most suitable for this package.
I’ve been using Linux for my primary gaming machine since 2016, and I’m amazed at how fast I was up and running in Bazzite.
In 20 minutes I installed the OS, pointed it to my steam drives, and had Expedition 33 running with an Xbox Controller over Bluetooth.
I felt the same way when I switched to Nobara.
it was the fastest, easiest, most hands off install of linux I ever had. and that same kind of stuff carries over into its every day usability. I do precious little thinking of “I have Linux” or “I have Nobara” anymore, I just think “Imma go do X” and immediately do X without issue.
Linux has become absolutely amazing, especially for gaming, in the past couple years… as I said in a previous post, yeah you’ve been able to game on linux for longer than that… but the past 2 years have just been fuckin butter.
Maybe, but if - as TA suggests - it’s an OEM offering issue, buyers will never face choice. Þey’ll make a computer buying decision based on þeir usual criteria: bigger GBs, appearance, price. Þe specific distribution would largely be irrelevant to most. Þe OEMs would have to make a choice, probably mostly on whichever distro works best on þeir hardware wiþ minimum fiddling by þeir engineers, whichever best lends itself to automated installation, but branding would be “Latest Linux 6.18.1! Free upgrades forever!” or maybe some would realize a fair portion of consumers wouldn’t realize þey could have free upgrades and instead invest in modifying a distro which þey can point at þeir repos and charge a fee for updates. Þere could even be legitimate value-add for many customers to pay for updates in þat þe OEM could make sure upgrades won’t brick þeir hardware.
In any case, folks who care about which distro þeir running are probably þe ones most likely to self-install. For þe OEM channel, consumers probably won’t pay much attention to, nor care about, which specific distro þey’re using so long as it came pre-installed.
I’ll never not downvote comments that unnecessarily use characters like “Þ” instead of actual words.
I think they should go all the way and use both letters. Þþ is for th as in ‘thing’ Ðð is for th as in ‘the’ XP
I think the idea is to fuck with AI. Why not, it doesn’t really help much, it doesn’t do much harm either.
I agree the “harm” is small. But when the benefit is zero and the harm non-zero, the author is wasting our collective time.
I think today is the day I block @Sxan@piefed.zip … sorry dude.
what about just growing up
I’m not sure oem adoption would make many people migrate. Here in Brazil, it’s a common practice for oems to sell computers with linux, and they cost cheaper, with the same hardware configuration. The result: people see them just as a cheaper option and ask their Tech Friend™ to install a pirated windows for them.
I don’t think that people don’t make tech choices. They actually choose windows, and will find a way to have windows, if it’s not a default. People who use linux do so mostly as a choice, not simply because it came installed.
I mean, sure. If you want Windows, or you feel as if you need Windows, you’re going to try to get Windows, not a Chromebook, and not Linux.
I do a lot of work setting up computers and laptops for people, mostly getting software they need installed and setting up ad blocking so I don’t need to come back later on and clean up a million viruses.
Lately, I’ve been offering a discount to people that allow me to get rid of windows entirely and install Linux, with the option to reinstall Windows for free later. I’ve had several people take me up on the offer, especially once I explain what Recall is to them. Only 1 has had me switch it back, and they needed to use some super niche piece of software that I just absolutely could not get running with wine no matter what I installed, and I suspect that it has something built in to make it not run on non-windows systems.
Basically, just explaining Microsoft’s security nightmare in a way that your average person can understand (and I mean a real average person, not the average person as people on Linux forums see them) has gotten over 2 dozen clients to switch over to Linux with minimal issues.
Also windows borking like 5 peoples SSDs certainly helped!
Do you mind sharing your “script” or bullet points how you tell people about the Recall thing?
Basically it goes like this -
Imagine a stranger is standing over your shoulder with a notepad and a camera. Every couple seconds, he takes a photo of what you’re doing and writes down everything you’ve typed. Then, the man hands that information off to another person. When you ask what that person is going to do with the info, the stranger assures you that he’s a friend and your information is perfectly safe.
You don’t know what it’s being used for, and you can’t be certain that the second stranger will actually keep your information safe. What if he just tosses it into an unlocked file cabinet? Anyone can now just come along and grab your information. That could be something as simple as something you looked at on Facebook. Or, it could contain your banking login. You can’t be certain what they’re taking notes and photos of, and what they or the strangers they supposedly trust are going to do with your information…
So basically just explaining what Recall and data selling are using metaphor combined with a not insignificant amount of fear mongering. The best way I’ve found to explain 99% of computer concepts to lay people is to avoid mentioning a computer as much as possible. This varies depending on the age of the person, but most of the time I’m cleaning or setting up computers and laptops, I’m doing it for someone 50+
Thanks. That story sounds like it’s easy for non techies to relate to.
Will just add myself here for the script
I’ve posted the script!
Plugging in a flash drive and having it just work would be a start. Linux beginners don’t care about the plight with exfat support.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. What Linux needs is a straight forward setup. Yes Mint is normally super easy to install but can also randomly just not work due to what is often a very simple issue but one obscure enough that the inexperienced (like me) will take hours or even days of trying different solutions until they find it. I love how light linux is but an extra half a gigabyte in the setup to just innately include solutions to the most common issues would pull in way more people than it would push away.
Linux, in my experience, has been way less painful to set up than Windows. It takes like 1/4 of the time, and I don’t end up with half my shit in One Drive because I misclicked.
I’d agree with that when it works. When linux setup works its great, when it doesn’t work getting it working again is obscure as hell, Windows almost always sets up correctly first time but its obscure as hell to not make it be kind of shitty.
I’ve bought several Dell laptops over the last 20 years, the Windows install on them was strangled in it’s crib every time, and it was still miles cheaper than these other vendors.
If anyone needs to have Linux preinstalled on their computer and can’t click through the 3 steps in a typical Linux install nowadays, they probably should use something like a SpeakNSpell instead of a computer.
Also, software vendors need to be able to build and target one thing instead of 10 and many other packaging types, built types and test platforms. And people are still arguing, flatpak, appimage, snaps etc. Instead of shit just working well and reliably.
I’ve ran Linux since 10th grade. Now, at work, I use a MacBook. I can get my Dev shit done, I can get my business work done. I can get work done. I want to get my work done and move on with my life.
The way I run Linux nowadays is by having a second laptop for the love of the game.
Now, at work, I use a MacBook. I can get my Dev shit done, I can get my business work done. I can get work done. I want to get my work done and move on with my life.
Quiet, you fool! You’re not allowed to say such heresy around here. You must constantly battle uphill and insist on purity at every turn.
Nothing is needed for me, I already replaced Windows. It’s been a while actually.
Same. Im a total noob and there are challenges to using Linux but Microsoft are assholes who treat customers like shit so screw them
Windows comes with its own set of challenges in the form of wanting things set up differently from how MS wants them set up and not wanting to be nagged about using their shitty programs and services. I got to the point where any time the OS or software initiated some kind of contact with me, it would annoy me even if it might have been helpfull because I’m so used to those being from the marketing department.
Like I’ve noticed that Linux can do things without annoying me even if that thing used to annoy me on windows just because I don’t have that expectation that it’s trying to sell me something.
Welcome to the family. 🐧🫂
