@bekkaboo@girlcock.club Linux itself is heavily using AI models. Therefore, every Linux distribution moving to recent kernel versions is heavily built on top of using AI models. Creating a Linux distribution not heavily using it would require a hard fork of the Linux kernel and many other projects.
It's unclear what would be accomplished by banning AI for a tiny portion of the code while continuing to use Linux, AOSP, Chromium and hundreds of other projects heavily using it. We'd still be benefiting from it.
GrapheneOS is currently defending its use of AI coding tools on Mastodon against complaints by various accounts claiming to be users.
We do not understand where you’re coming from or why you’re so incredibly angry with us. It’s not justified and does not make sense.
GrapheneOS and Linus have always had a god complex and took the stance their way is the only way. I have never respected them as the arbiters of the correct path others have. (I know LineageOS exists but not much else so can’t speak to them).
I respect them putting in the effort. I respect them trying. I’ve contributed where I can because the overall goal of data privacy and digital freedom is one I agree with. But to hold them on a pedestal as always right is, yes, still a dumb take. I’ve never seen anything that made them the end all be all people seem to hold them up as. Solid voices who’s opinion should hold more than average? Sure. But that’s it.
Yes, Linus is smart and has had good takes and can produce code used by most every computer in one way or another. That doesn’t make him infallible.
Its not about putting linus on a pedestal… its about these anti-AI purists declaring everyone who uses AI a nazi and all code is slop. Big tough guys saying they wont use software with even a single line of generated code.
Go ahead, fork the linux kernel then… these people will never be able to follow through with their purism, unless they go full templeOS mode
I dislike AI overall, but what i’m starting to dislike almost as much are these anti-AI purists who are holier than everyone
I mean this in the worst way possible. Your attitude mirrors the far right and is just as bad a take. That’s their approach to everything.
“Oh, you’re fighting against something you see as a danger to literally the entire world? Well if you’d just stop shoving your opinion in our face we’d be happier.”
He doesn’t care for misguided opinions not backed with anything but emotion. The people he is talking about don’t actually look into the issues and fight those, their mind is set that AI is evil and you are too for any usage of it, without actually understanding anything about the situation.
There are situations where using AI uses less power than traditional methods, there are situations where the power is clean, hell there are even models getting made that don’t use stolen data. Some people use it more responsibly (use tiny models where possible) while some toss everything at whatever new Fable or Opus is available.
There are levels of AI usage and their blanket statements with no understanding are annoying because it alienates the people that are responsible with their usage.
It absolutely is something I struggle with. To me, I know LLMs are just called AI but aren’t, and machine learning is not LLM. I’ve actually developed a neural network based program for a previous company before and know it can be useful in certain cases.
But how do I know the person I’m talking to knows that? How do I know the person is one of the minority who is trying to do it ethically and responsibly? How do I express just how truly damaging the current mainstream “AI” methods are succinctly and strongly without getting bogged down in that discussion and sidetracked from the bigger picture (which is exactly what’s happening here in this comment for example).
AI is Evil -> Irresponsible AI use is Evil
AI destroys the environment -> Irresponsible AI use is destroying the environment
All it really takes imo is a small adjustment of words to change your stance from looking like zealotry to actual concern for the issues. I also think these sidetracks are important, to be fair. Otherwise we wouldn’t have had this conversation to deepen our understanding of the issues.
I would be more than willing to agree if the message was “Frontier AI labs are causing massive harm to the environment by facilitating irresponsible use of AI” rather than “AI is evil, fuck you for using it” (not saying those are your words, just getting my point across lol)
I explicitly did not call you a Nazi or far right. I do see how what I wrote could be interpreted that way and isn’t my intent so my bad on that one.
I said that that’s a far right attitude to take. Shutting out the opinion of people against it because you view them as obnoxious. Nothing good will happen if we all did that in my opinion.
I never shut out opposing opinions… i merely said that i’m irritated by the anti-AI purists…
"All AI is facist and you are a facist/far-right/nazi if you use even a little bit of it " (not what you said, but a very common statement on lemmy)
“AI is a potentially useful technology that has a lot of negatove externalities. Let’s work together to reduce the negatives and take the power back from big tech.”
Which one of those stances sounds more like “Shutting out the opinion of people”?
I guess many people don’t know how much programming has changed over the last year. GrapheneOS is doing a good job telling it like it is.
Your take here is so dumb. Many on Lemmy are software engineers (myself included).
We know exactly how “AI” companies have tried to change programming and know how dumb and misguided it is because we understand quality code.
Sure bro. All dumb takes by GrapheneOS, LineageOS, and even Linux.
You understand quality code, unlike Linus Torvalds.
Appeals to authority and hero worship are terrible arguments for anything
GrapheneOS and Linus have always had a god complex and took the stance their way is the only way. I have never respected them as the arbiters of the correct path others have. (I know LineageOS exists but not much else so can’t speak to them).
I respect them putting in the effort. I respect them trying. I’ve contributed where I can because the overall goal of data privacy and digital freedom is one I agree with. But to hold them on a pedestal as always right is, yes, still a dumb take. I’ve never seen anything that made them the end all be all people seem to hold them up as. Solid voices who’s opinion should hold more than average? Sure. But that’s it.
Yes, Linus is smart and has had good takes and can produce code used by most every computer in one way or another. That doesn’t make him infallible.
Its not about putting linus on a pedestal… its about these anti-AI purists declaring everyone who uses AI a nazi and all code is slop. Big tough guys saying they wont use software with even a single line of generated code.
Go ahead, fork the linux kernel then… these people will never be able to follow through with their purism, unless they go full templeOS mode
I dislike AI overall, but what i’m starting to dislike almost as much are these anti-AI purists who are holier than everyone
I mean this in the worst way possible. Your attitude mirrors the far right and is just as bad a take. That’s their approach to everything.
“Oh, you’re fighting against something you see as a danger to literally the entire world? Well if you’d just stop shoving your opinion in our face we’d be happier.”
He doesn’t care for misguided opinions not backed with anything but emotion. The people he is talking about don’t actually look into the issues and fight those, their mind is set that AI is evil and you are too for any usage of it, without actually understanding anything about the situation.
There are situations where using AI uses less power than traditional methods, there are situations where the power is clean, hell there are even models getting made that don’t use stolen data. Some people use it more responsibly (use tiny models where possible) while some toss everything at whatever new Fable or Opus is available.
There are levels of AI usage and their blanket statements with no understanding are annoying because it alienates the people that are responsible with their usage.
I am sorry you get tossed out with the bathwater.
It absolutely is something I struggle with. To me, I know LLMs are just called AI but aren’t, and machine learning is not LLM. I’ve actually developed a neural network based program for a previous company before and know it can be useful in certain cases.
But how do I know the person I’m talking to knows that? How do I know the person is one of the minority who is trying to do it ethically and responsibly? How do I express just how truly damaging the current mainstream “AI” methods are succinctly and strongly without getting bogged down in that discussion and sidetracked from the bigger picture (which is exactly what’s happening here in this comment for example).
AI is Evil -> Irresponsible AI use is Evil AI destroys the environment -> Irresponsible AI use is destroying the environment
All it really takes imo is a small adjustment of words to change your stance from looking like zealotry to actual concern for the issues. I also think these sidetracks are important, to be fair. Otherwise we wouldn’t have had this conversation to deepen our understanding of the issues.
I would be more than willing to agree if the message was “Frontier AI labs are causing massive harm to the environment by facilitating irresponsible use of AI” rather than “AI is evil, fuck you for using it” (not saying those are your words, just getting my point across lol)
Ok, so i’m far-right (just call me a nazi) because i dont have a 100% blind hatred of AI?
this is exactly what i’m talking about… this kind of holier than thou attitude makes enemies out of potential allies
I’m sure if we had a reasonable discussion about AI we’d find 90% of our opinions align… i’m generally very against AI as it is now…
But instead you’ve already labelled me as just another pro-AI nazi because i dont pass your purity test
I explicitly did not call you a Nazi or far right. I do see how what I wrote could be interpreted that way and isn’t my intent so my bad on that one.
I said that that’s a far right attitude to take. Shutting out the opinion of people against it because you view them as obnoxious. Nothing good will happen if we all did that in my opinion.
I never shut out opposing opinions… i merely said that i’m irritated by the anti-AI purists…
"All AI is facist and you are a facist/far-right/nazi if you use even a little bit of it " (not what you said, but a very common statement on lemmy)
“AI is a potentially useful technology that has a lot of negatove externalities. Let’s work together to reduce the negatives and take the power back from big tech.”
Which one of those stances sounds more like “Shutting out the opinion of people”?
Is that what you’re doing, then?
Unfortunately, having a god complex is not sufficient to make one a good coder.
You’re literally the one who was using him as your example…
You’re an idiot if you think popular and field leaders can’t be wrong.
I know only one type of person that uses that phrase unironically.
Oh yeah. Op is definitely one of those types.
It hasn’t changed at all, some of us just use LLMs to help us code.
What has changed is the influx of morons thinking they are devs cos they can vibe code an app full of bugs and security risks.