Hey, there’s less combative ways to put things, not even saying this directly for you but ostensibly we’re on the same side, can we go back to taking to each other like human beings.
Democrats are not aligned against fascists. They have enabled fascism. They want to work within the capitalist structure, the same structure that is oppressive to the working class, that is upheld via fascism.
Enabling fascism is still not the same thing as being aligned with fascism. I get that that is maybe a bit too advanced for your black and white worldview, but that is true. I know you want to spout your doctrine or whatever at me, but… There are not enough of the people you think are the only true leftists to do your revolution. It’s not possible without allies, and like it or not, liberals are going to be more aligned with you than you’d like. So, if that bothers you, why do you think that this plan of your of turning away allies will help you with your goals? What’s the plan, Stan?
a few good apples in the democratic party won’t save the USA from falling further.
A few rotten apples in the democratic party gave us the modern day DLC. These movements all have to plant their seeds somewhere. And its nihilistic - and deeply ahistorical - to believe these institutional organizations are immune to change. The Whigs very famously collapsed, almost overnight, after the 1852 election and gave birth to Radical Republicanism. The Kennedy/LBJ administration dragged Dixiecrats out of the dark ages, kicking and screaming.
You need to look at the reasons how the USA ended up in such a position to begin with.
Most of them are geographic and historical. We’re physically isolated from the hotbed of historical conflicts, pandemic wiped out the native population creating an abundance of free real estate, and all this happened at the advent of industrialization.
There’s no saving America when there are only two parties
In most of the US, there’s really only one functioning party and one rump opposition. Material opposition has to come from somewhere. Traditionally, that is via the party structure. New parties can emerge from the cadavers of the old. And the DSA is as good a vehicle for an alternative party structure as anything I’ve seen to date.
Good democrats? LOL
These are in single digits and there aren’t enough of them to make a difference when they are outnumbered 1 to 100.
Both parties are fascist and need to go and at least 50 new parties need be created. Each state should have at least one party.
Hey, there’s less combative ways to put things, not even saying this directly for you but ostensibly we’re on the same side, can we go back to taking to each other like human beings.
Liberals and Communists/socialists/lefitists are not on the same side as liberals, we don’t even want the same thing
That’s wrong, though. Both groups are aligned against fascists.
Democrats are not aligned against fascists. They have enabled fascism. They want to work within the capitalist structure, the same structure that is oppressive to the working class, that is upheld via fascism.
Enabling fascism is still not the same thing as being aligned with fascism. I get that that is maybe a bit too advanced for your black and white worldview, but that is true. I know you want to spout your doctrine or whatever at me, but… There are not enough of the people you think are the only true leftists to do your revolution. It’s not possible without allies, and like it or not, liberals are going to be more aligned with you than you’d like. So, if that bothers you, why do you think that this plan of your of turning away allies will help you with your goals? What’s the plan, Stan?
Liberals are not allies, allies dont punch left to defend the right the way liberals do.
Enabling = aligned. Complicity is guilt
So, do you then agree that you have no plans to make things better?
Your plans sure as fuck doesnt make things better
this is just bad faith bullshit
Good people exist in these parties. They’re the work horses of the party.
Any time one of them goes for a significant leadership position, the rest of the party leadership turns on them like an autoimmune disease.
Kat’s a good example of this. Mamdani is another. The LA City Council has a bunch of goodies. But they are in the slim minority.
Plenty of lay members and low level staffers are liberal, progressive, or even outright socialist.
If you’re not going to support them when they try and take power, might as well just leave the whole NATO block and become a Sandinista or Chavismo.
Seems like you haven’t read my comment, because that’s exactly what I said, just not in such nice words.
Both parties are rotten to the core, a few good apples in the democratic party won’t save the USA from falling further.
You need to look at the reasons how the USA ended up in such a position to begin with.
There’s no saving America when there are only two parties and both are fascist and controlled by billionaires.
A few rotten apples in the democratic party gave us the modern day DLC. These movements all have to plant their seeds somewhere. And its nihilistic - and deeply ahistorical - to believe these institutional organizations are immune to change. The Whigs very famously collapsed, almost overnight, after the 1852 election and gave birth to Radical Republicanism. The Kennedy/LBJ administration dragged Dixiecrats out of the dark ages, kicking and screaming.
Most of them are geographic and historical. We’re physically isolated from the hotbed of historical conflicts, pandemic wiped out the native population creating an abundance of free real estate, and all this happened at the advent of industrialization.
In most of the US, there’s really only one functioning party and one rump opposition. Material opposition has to come from somewhere. Traditionally, that is via the party structure. New parties can emerge from the cadavers of the old. And the DSA is as good a vehicle for an alternative party structure as anything I’ve seen to date.