This isn’t really true internally for Russia. The USSR collapse was the result of the greed of the government officials who are now the Russian oligarchy (in collaboration with some Ukrainian officials IIRC who wanted to break away from the USSR?). The USSR didn’t even have a stock market, and the “government” installed one for the specific purpose of allowing government officials to buy up major parts of the economy to become billionaires practically overnight while they caused a major economic recession to ensure that nobody else could profit from the short entry window because they were too busy selling off their heirlooms to buy bread. It’s called Shock Therapy, and the Russians flew out at least one or two Wall Street execs in order to help them set the whole thing up. Modern Russia operates a lot like the US (at least economically).
A US dissolution would be very different. The USSR had one country that dominated everything. When it broke apart, Russia alone still represented an overwhelming majority of the former Soviet block’s population, economy, etc.
That really isn’t the case with the US. The largest state, California, only represents about 11% of the whole US population and a bit more on the economy. California would not dominate a post-dissolution US the way Russia dominated the former Soviet block. The big US states would be more the first among equals than the 800 lb gorilla in the room.
You’re assuming that people act in their own interests. Conservatives will happily ruin their lives because an oligarch told them to. Just look at Brexit. Or…literally anything that happens in Republican states.
Yeah I think a breakup of the US would result in several successor nations. The 50 wouldn’t remain independent for long. But that does illustrate the key difference between this and the case of the USSR. It’s likely that such successors would have a much more equal share of population and economy than the post-Soviet case.
Though, another key difference is the history the US has for Constitutional conventions. Let’s imagine the federal government goes away completely. By whatever means, 50 states are now independent nations. And as you note, after awhile most will get tired of being small tiny nations of little international clout. Now, one option would be the formation of new nations, perhaps formed from the regions of the old US. But there would also be folks running around calling for an entirely new Constitutional convention. Just a complete rewrite. And it is tempting to say that things are so contentious now that there’s no chance the US could ever ratify a new Constitution. But, any Constitution would have to be adopted unanimously. This would be someone trying to get 50 independent states to merge. Each one individually could still say no. Which means that any new Constitution would be moderate and also structured with the kinds of grand bargains and compromises it took the original one to pass. If especially the new independent post-US states had some time to cool off, I can imagine after a few years a new movement to create a new Constitution would get going. There’s already clear historical precedent for it.
If the US falls apart, I would expect it to be a very bloody affair. Not just red state vs blue state, but also city blue against countryside red. The trauma of that would likely be sufficiently deep to keep folks apart for a couple of hundreds of years.
People living there is irrelevant for the countries existing, people where living on land long before the concept of nations was invented and they may still after the concept of nations has faded in time.
Or, you know more likely in the current climate: government false, power vacuum becomes violent power struggle and at the end a new nation is born with a fresh start to repeat the cycle of competitive imperialism.
This is just some idea, not very much thought put in it yet but what if,
Every US state became its own independent nation and the US tried to survive as a “EU” type of union.
I suppose the union would fail as some states with more military resources may decide to wage war to control neighbouring resources.
But the huge international power would be gone and divided in smaller powers.
If it would survive as this type of union it shows that all the different states can work together as equals which is a better foundation then what there is now.
Now if we also divide up russia and china this way at the same time we might actually solve a lot of international tensions at once.
deleted by creator
The soviet union doesn’t exist anymore and didn’t require killing millions to end it.
deleted by creator
Good Lord, your education system is truly fucked
Depends which area of the union you are looking at. Poland is doing pretty well for themselves now.
Poland was not part of the USSR.
True, but it didn’t help them much.
deleted by creator
This isn’t really true internally for Russia. The USSR collapse was the result of the greed of the government officials who are now the Russian oligarchy (in collaboration with some Ukrainian officials IIRC who wanted to break away from the USSR?). The USSR didn’t even have a stock market, and the “government” installed one for the specific purpose of allowing government officials to buy up major parts of the economy to become billionaires practically overnight while they caused a major economic recession to ensure that nobody else could profit from the short entry window because they were too busy selling off their heirlooms to buy bread. It’s called Shock Therapy, and the Russians flew out at least one or two Wall Street execs in order to help them set the whole thing up. Modern Russia operates a lot like the US (at least economically).
A US dissolution would be very different. The USSR had one country that dominated everything. When it broke apart, Russia alone still represented an overwhelming majority of the former Soviet block’s population, economy, etc.
That really isn’t the case with the US. The largest state, California, only represents about 11% of the whole US population and a bit more on the economy. California would not dominate a post-dissolution US the way Russia dominated the former Soviet block. The big US states would be more the first among equals than the 800 lb gorilla in the room.
deleted by creator
You’re assuming that people act in their own interests. Conservatives will happily ruin their lives because an oligarch told them to. Just look at Brexit. Or…literally anything that happens in Republican states.
Yeah I think a breakup of the US would result in several successor nations. The 50 wouldn’t remain independent for long. But that does illustrate the key difference between this and the case of the USSR. It’s likely that such successors would have a much more equal share of population and economy than the post-Soviet case.
Though, another key difference is the history the US has for Constitutional conventions. Let’s imagine the federal government goes away completely. By whatever means, 50 states are now independent nations. And as you note, after awhile most will get tired of being small tiny nations of little international clout. Now, one option would be the formation of new nations, perhaps formed from the regions of the old US. But there would also be folks running around calling for an entirely new Constitutional convention. Just a complete rewrite. And it is tempting to say that things are so contentious now that there’s no chance the US could ever ratify a new Constitution. But, any Constitution would have to be adopted unanimously. This would be someone trying to get 50 independent states to merge. Each one individually could still say no. Which means that any new Constitution would be moderate and also structured with the kinds of grand bargains and compromises it took the original one to pass. If especially the new independent post-US states had some time to cool off, I can imagine after a few years a new movement to create a new Constitution would get going. There’s already clear historical precedent for it.
If the US falls apart, I would expect it to be a very bloody affair. Not just red state vs blue state, but also city blue against countryside red. The trauma of that would likely be sufficiently deep to keep folks apart for a couple of hundreds of years.
People living there is irrelevant for the countries existing, people where living on land long before the concept of nations was invented and they may still after the concept of nations has faded in time.
Or, you know more likely in the current climate: government false, power vacuum becomes violent power struggle and at the end a new nation is born with a fresh start to repeat the cycle of competitive imperialism.
deleted by creator
This is just some idea, not very much thought put in it yet but what if,
Every US state became its own independent nation and the US tried to survive as a “EU” type of union.
I suppose the union would fail as some states with more military resources may decide to wage war to control neighbouring resources. But the huge international power would be gone and divided in smaller powers.
If it would survive as this type of union it shows that all the different states can work together as equals which is a better foundation then what there is now.
Now if we also divide up russia and china this way at the same time we might actually solve a lot of international tensions at once.
deleted by creator
Smaller countries don’t necessarily have better behaviour, its just their actions are less significant than major ones.
deleted by creator
The entire island of Ireland would be outnumbered 3 to 1 by London, yet they sell almost all their aluminia to Russia currently.
A smaller economy can’t afford to take a stand as much as larger ones, whatever sentiment may say.
deleted by creator
Oh downvotes might still be coming, but i might have some luck as i believe europe is about to wake up and hold a majority engagement on lemmy.